About Perl News

 

Perl related announcements.

We will focus on:

  • Large meet up events (conferences and hackathons)
  • Major Perl announcements (new versions)
  • Major projects and their successes

We prefer to link to the original source of any announcement, instead of hosting the story here.

We are happy for others to syndicate our feed, although a link back would be appreciated.

All posts will be both moderated and edited, please feel free to submit a story.

  12 Responses to “About Perl News”

  1. Great initiative! Hope to contribute soon.

  2. Glad to see this site appear. I see RSS feed buttons for individual posts, but no button for the feed from the entire site – maybe you can add that in the page header somewhere?

  3. This is sad. Using PHP for a site like this doesn’t do much to help Perl’s credibility :(

    • I built this site. It took a total of about three hours because I used WordPress. The advantages to me were a) WordPress is software that I know and b) WordPress has a huge ecosystem of themes and plugins.

      As I see it, I had the following options:

      1/ Build the site in WordPress, knowing that it would be easy, that all the features I needed would be available and that the site would look good at the end.

      2/ Build the site in one of the Perl blogging engines. This would have meant me learning new software. It would have almost certainly also entailed searching for extra plugins that don’t exist.

      3/ Write my own software in Perl. This would probably have taken five or ten times as much effort and it’s unlikely that we would have ended up with such a professional looking site.

      Which option would you have chosen? If you’re unhappy with my choice of software, then feel free to set up your own site. We’ll happily link to you when it’s ready.

      I’m tired of people telling me that the Perl community should only use software written in Perl. I use the best tools I know for the job in hand.

      • I totally disagree. This behaviour of “using the best tools one knows for the job in hand” resulting in using on sites promoting Perl almost any other technology but Perl is

        * a capitulation
        * a sign of ignorance
        * a sign of laziness
        * a sign of activism

        Several choices possible. I’m tired of Perl people not using available software written in Perl just because they do not know any (ignorance) or think it is inferior (capitulation).

        And I’m not a zealot. It may be ok to use what’s at hand first to get things going and to move to something later on that serves ALSO the purpose of spreading a good image.

        But I agree that one has to do something and not just criticize others. Then, the fingerpointing “You did not use Perl-based software, but I did. You loose.” is much more effective.

        Richard

        • You’re completely free to disagree, of course. But I’m not sure that either Leo or I deserve to be called ignorant or lazy.

          In my opinion there is no Perl solution that comes close to the power of WordPress for setting up a web site quickly. And I don’t say that lightly. I’ve used Movable Type for over ten years. I still use it for a few sites – until I get round to porting them to WordPress.

          Look at blogs.perl.org. That’s using MT. And it has plenty of bugs that still annoy users. And, yes, we could probably dig into the code and fix them. But no-one has the time.

          Look at perl.com. Leo was involved in moving that from O’Reilly’s CMS. Buy him a beer one day and ask him to tell you his horror stories.

          And I can’t see anything in the Perl world that is better than MT. Oh, I could write something, of course, But did you miss the bit where I said that I put this site together in three hours? It seems that every year at YAPC, I have a conversation with someone who is interested in writing code to replace blogs.perl.org with something better. But nothing has ever been written. I don’t know why that is.

          Oh, I’ve seen toy blog systems written in Perl. There are plenty of those. But nothing that comes close to the power and flexibility of WP. As WP is so popular, there are hundreds of people writing plug-ins for it. Want something to add Google Analytics code? It takes two minutes to add the right plugin. Something to allow users to submit stories. That took a bit longer – perhaps half an hour. See those “share this icons” on every story? A plugin that I installed in a couple of minutes. And the list goes on and on…

          I can only finish by repeating what I said at the end of the comment you replied to.

          Which option would you have chosen?

          It’s a serious question. If there is something out there that we should be using instead then please tell us. We’ll investigate.

          If you’re unhappy with my choice of software, then feel free to set up your own site. We’ll happily link to you when it’s ready.

          I mean that too. I’d love to see another solution. Please let us know when yours is ready.

          • Ok, I will – have to answer verbatim, because this damned blog does not give you the opportunity to quote and edit, or even to preview – something I have @ blogs.perl.org

            I do not call you or Leo lazy/ignorant per se. But I claim that by establishing this blog in WP you’ve acted “at that particular occasion” – well – let’s at least say “short sighted”.

            I also do agree, that my choice of words is not a thorough showcase of diplomacy. Rest assured, it’s nothing personal. ;-)

            Although I do not know it, I totally believe you, that some O’Reilly CMS. (I assume it is implemented in Perl) is a nightmare. I have also the impression, the available Perl-implemented CMS systems are sh*t.

            But let’s come to the disagree part:

            If I recall correctly, you’re the author of several Perl-propagating articles, talks etc. And STILL you not only announce here publicly that you intend to migrate MT blogs to WP, but you also have that mindset that porting is the right thing(tm) to do.

            Sorry Dave, I’m afraid you should not do that.

            I do not say stick with MT. If MT is not good enough (I tend to believe you there because I can admit my ignorance in blog software) then keep on searching for better solutions. Let’s take this perlnews.org. Let’s be honest: It is not the shiny crystal palace of the blogging universe (blogging software wise – of course the quality of the content is undisputable). You say you set that up in 3 hours of your precious time. Why was that? Was there a deadline before which perlnews.org had to be finished? Is it not better to sometimes not shoot at all if you cannot aim right? Honestly, this blogging software has a far worse look&feel to me than blogs.perl.org.

            As for your question what option I would have chosen: I would have chosen MT and pestered six apart until either my blog was something one can (good) live with, or migrated to something in the language I am trying to promote as soon as it became available and viable.

            I am pretty confident, that people here will see matters as you do. Even many (luckily not all) of the Perl guys. I certainly hope there will be a learning process. If you have to set up something for a customer: Do OF COURSE whatever it takes to achieve that task so that everybody is happy. If – OTOH – you set up something for the Perl community – nota bene something called perlnews.org. And nota bene “Major projects and their successes” (I assume Perl ones?), then giving it a non-Perl infrastructure is … eh .. I do not want to say that word, … well “short sighted” see above.

            And to the point “if you have a solution … let us know”. I do not have a blog solution. But I founded Propaganda.pm against all odds (more on that elsewhere). And you know what? I can say and fingerpoint and yadda yadda do the raindance, that Propaganda.pm is NOT dependent on the pathetic use of mailman that serves ALL of pm.org.

            That is a similar case, with similar arguments. Similar “short sighted”.

            And I would finally like to point out that I absolutely respect your work and I didn’t start that topic. I just will not keep silent anymore when I see what I believe are fatally flawed “Perl-related” opinions.

          • Richard,

            I’m going to reply to this in more detail when I have time. But I just wanted to make a few quick points.

            1/ Your comment contains a number of inaccuracies. For example, I have never said that I wanted to move blogs.perl.org to WordPress. I’m not convinced the WordPress supports the multi-blog set-up that we need there.

            2/ It’s very easy to criticise people’s choice of technology. I see that a lot. What I see very rarely is people implementing alternatives. If you want another Perl News site that uses different technologies then just do it. I will support you in any way I can.

            3/ The Perl community’s infrastructure is built and maintained by volunteers. People build sites like this because they think they will be useful. They rarely get any compensation for doing it. It would be very easy for any of these volunteers to decide to stop doing useful work for the Perl community. Comments like yours are exactly the kind of thing that might make someone wonder whether all the effort is worth it.

    • I agree wholeheartedly with Dave. One uses the best tool for the job at hand, considering factors incuding personal experience and community support.

      I’m running my blog with Melody now, but that’s only because I’d used Movable Type for years before that. I recommend WordPress to new bloggers, beacuse its community is so much more vibrant than MT / Melody’s. This is similar to how I continue to use Perl for most of my professional work, because its community, made incarnate in the CPAN, is so excellent.

      There’s a fine line between being a language advocate and a language zealot, and it hinges on perspective and flexibility. Which is a rather Perlish way to be, really. :)

  4. The Gist: I agree with Dave.

    Ignoring a technology that’s a perfectly good fit simply because it’s not your go-to technology is a bad move and a good indication of the type of developer your are (one that would shove a square peg through a round hole).

    I’ve think WordPress is awesome. WordPress has done more for the web than many other technologies across the spectrum of web technologies. It’s easy to setup and configure, has a huge ecosystem, “it’s familiar” and doesn’t require much training and if it does happen to be foreign to certain users there are tons of tutorials and documentation across the internet.

    I’d even bet that it’s one of the leading technologies which help non-programmers get into programming which is a testament in itself.

    I actually planned on blogging about this on my site later this month, but I’ve on a few occasions I’ve used plugins to turn WordPress into a traditional content management system with a JSON API which allows you to have all the benefits of WP without the PHP front-end.

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